Q: Can we talk of witnessing the real?
M: How can we? We can talk only of the
unreal, the illusory, the transient, the conditioned. To go beyond,
we must pass through total negation of everything as having
independent existence. All things depend.
Q: On what do they depend?
M: On consciousness.
*
M: By itself nothing has existence.
Everything needs its own absence. To be, is to be distinguishable, to
be here and not there, to be now and not then, to be thus and not
otherwise. Like water is shaped by the container, so is everything
determined by conditions (gunas). As water remains water regardless
of the vessels, as light remains itself regardless of the colours it
brings out, so does the real remain real, regardless of conditions in
which it is reflected. Why keep the reflection only in the focus of
consciousness? Why not the real itself?
Q: Consciousness itself is a
reflection. How can it hold the real?
M: To know that consciousness and its
content are but reflections, changeful and transient, is the
focussing of the real. The refusal to see the snake in the rope is
the necessary condition for seeing the rope.
*
Q: Can the unconditioned be
experienced?
M: To know the conditioned as
conditioned is all that can be said about the unconditioned. Positive
terms are mere hints and misleading.
*
Q: If the unconditioned cannot be
experienced, for all experience is conditioned, then why talk of it
at all?
M: How can there be knowledge of the
conditioned without the unconditioned? There must be a source from
which all this flows, a foundation on which all stands.
Self-realisation is primarily the knowledge of one's conditioning and
the awareness that the infinite variety of conditions depends on our
infinite ability to be conditioned and to give rise to variety. To
the conditioned mind the unconditioned appears as the totality as
well as the absence of everything. Neither can be directly
experienced, but this does not make it not-existent.
Q: Is it not a feeling?
M: A feeling too is a state of mind.
Just like a healthy body does not call for attention, so is the
unconditioned free from experience. Take the experience of death. The
ordinary man is afraid to die, because he is afraid of change. The
jnani is not afraid because his mind is dead already. He does not
think: 'I live'. He knows: 'There is life'. There is no change in it
and no death. Death appears to be a change in time and space. Where
there is neither time nor space, how can there be death? The jnani is
already dead to name and shape. How can their loss affect him? The
man in the train travels from place to place, but the man off the
train goes nowhere, for he is not bound for a destination. He has
nowhere to go, nothing to do, nothing to become. Those who make plans
will be born to carry them out. Those who make no plans need not be
born.
*
Questioner: The person immersed in the
world has a life of many flavours. He weeps, he laughs, loves and
hates, desires and fears, suffers and rejoices. The desireless and
fearless jnani, what life has he? Is he not left high and dry in his
aloofness?
M: His state is not so desolate. It
tastes of the pure, uncaused, undiluted bliss. He is happy and fully
aware that happiness is his very nature and that he need not do
anything, nor strive for anything to secure it. It follows him, more
real than the body, nearer than the mind itself. You imagine that
without cause there can be no happiness. To me dependence on anything
for happiness is utter misery. Pleasure and pain have causes, while
my state is my own, totally uncaused, independent, unassailable.
*
M: The witness is merely a point in
awareness. It has no name and form. It is like the reflection of the
sun in a drop of dew. The drop of dew has name and form, but the
little point of light is caused by the sun. The clearness and
smoothness of the drop is a necessary condition but not sufficient by
itself. Similarly clarity and silence of the mind are necessary for
the reflection of reality to appear in the mind, but by themselves
they are not sufficient. There must be reality beyond it. Because
reality is timelessly present, the stress is on the necessary
conditions.
Q: Can it happen that the mind is clear
and quiet and yet no reflection appears?
M: There is destiny to consider. The
unconscious is in the grip of destiny, it is destiny, in fact. One
may have to wait. But however heavy may be the hand of destiny, it
can be lifted by patience and self-control. Integrity and purity
remove the obstacles and the vision of reality appears in the mind.
*
Q: Why do you say so? I do want to be
happy.
M: You are quite satisfied with
pleasures. There is no place for happiness. Empty your cup and clean
it. It cannot be filled otherwise. Others can give you pleasure, but
never happiness.
Q: A chain of pleasurable events is
good enough.
M: Soon it ends in pain, if not in
disaster. What is Yoga after all, but seeking lasting happiness
within?
Q: You can speak only for the East. In
the West the conditions are different and what you say does not
apply.
M: There is no East and West in sorrow
and fear. The problem is universal -- suffering and the ending of suffering. The cause of
suffering is dependence and independence is the remedy. Yoga is the science and the art of
self-liberation through self-understanding.
*
Q: When we are in trouble, we are bound
to be unhappy.
M: Fear is the only trouble. Know
yourself as independent and you will be free from fear and its
shadows.
Q: What is the difference between
happiness and pleasure?
M: Pleasure depends on things,
happiness does not.
Q: If happiness is independent, why are
we not always happy?
M: As long as we believe that we need
things to make us happy, we shall also believe that in their absence
we must be miserable. Mind always shapes itself according to its
beliefs. Hence the importance of convincing oneself that one need not
be prodded into happiness; that, on the contrary, pleasure is a
distraction and a nuisance, for it merely increases the false
conviction that one needs to have and do things to be happy when in
reality it is just the opposite.
But why talk of happiness at all? You
do not think of happiness except when you are unhappy. A man who
says: 'Now I am happy', is between two sorrows -- past and future.
This happiness is mere excitement caused by relief from pain. Real
happiness is utterly unselfconscious. It is best expressed negatively
as: 'there is nothing wrong with me. I have nothing to worry about'.
*
M: Once you know yourself, it is
immaterial what you do, but to realise your independence, you must
test it by letting go all you were dependent on. The realised man
lives on the level of the absolutes; his wisdom, love and courage are
complete, there is nothing relative about him.
*
Q: What is right and what is wrong?
M: Generally, what causes suffering is
wrong and what removes it, is right. The body and the mind are
limited and therefore vulnerable; they need protection which gives
rise to fear. As long as you identify yourself with them you are
bound to suffer; realise your independence and remain happy. I tell
you, this is the secret of happiness. To believe that you depend on
things and people for happiness is due to ignorance of your true
nature; to know that you need nothing to be happy, except
self-knowledge, is wisdom.
*
M: All dependence on another is futile,
for what others can give others will take away. Only what is your own
at the start will remain your own in the end. Accept no guidance but
from within, and even then sift out all memories for they will
mislead you. Even if you are quite ignorant of the ways and the
means, keep quiet and look within; guidance is sure to come. You are
never left without knowing what your next step should be. The trouble
is that you may shirk it. The Guru is there for giving you courage
because of his experience and success. But only what you discover
through your own awareness, your own effort, will be of permanent use
to you.
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